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Talk:Commonwealth of Natal

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Alternative flag

I have designed a flag for Natal.


The blue band at the hoist side is taken from the old flag of Portugal. Orange-White-Blue colors are taken from the old flag of the Netherlands. The red cross upon white represents English ancestry. The star is the star of Nazareth, it symbolizes the name of the country.


I am copyright-hater, of course you can use whatever I propose; and even when I don't propose something, I'm still quite okay with "stealing" ideas.

Honestly speaking, I don't like the flag you have now. I doubt any nation would use this mixture of American and British flags — it's too... uhm... unpersonalized. It does not represent this country.

BTW why you won't make an infobox for the country (I mean the table at the right side, see my country San Lorenzo for example).

And don't forget to sign your comments with "~~~~". I have forgotten to sign my post earlier... Sorry, mi culpa.

PS. Does Brazil have a city named Natal in your world? — Hellerick 16:36, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


hmmmm ok I see your point on the flag. But I would really prefer to use a flag that has the Union Jack in canton. I would like use the flag you designed as a parish flag (probably Centralia). Of course Brazil has a city called Natal, just like South Africa still has Natal province. I guess its like Georgia the US state and Georgia the country. I have checked out San Lorenzo... and since I happen to be a Mormon I found it pretty interesting haha. But, yeah, do you have any other suggestions for me? --Ac1914 21:09, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Mormon? Oh my, there are so many of you now. I kept one Mormon girl in mind when I was writing that sentence. I hope she won't think that I'm making fun of her. BTW, in my last version of the article I wrote that San Lorenzo corresponds to "the land of Zarahemla", is it okay?
The Brazilian city closest to your Natal has name "Natal"? Uhm... Well, it's even worse in the case of Luxembourg. Luxembourg is a country, a province of that country, a city in that province, and a neighboring province of Belgium. That means that one person may live in three Luxembourgs simultaneously and work in another one.
Your article looks pretty good. What it desperately needs now is a map (or rather several maps: Location, Administrative Division etc.). BTW aren't your territorial units too large to be parishes?
I understand why you want to keep the Union Jack (even though I don't believe that it would actually survive in a country like that). What about something like this (it consists of the same elements as my previous proposal):
And don't forget tilde in the name João. — Hellerick 16:30, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Well... as far as San Lorenzo being the land of Zarahemla I have no idea cuz I consider the Book of Mormon to be allegorically.. so I guess you can put Zarahemla anywhere ;) I used the name "parishes" as used in the case of the US State of Lousiana, which uses "parish" instead of "county," Ie the same term can be used to describe different things. My reason for wanting to keep the Union Jack is because in my mind I see Natal as being parallel with countries like Australia, New Zealand, and especially South Africa. I would mention the Union Jack stayed on the SA flag even after it became a Republic. As it did with the Fijian flag. And the UJ is even on the flag of the State of Hawaii which was never even part of Britain and principally settled by Americans! Ha ha. Shoot! I'm an American wanting the UJ on my fictional flag!! haha. Sick huh? Last night I put your version of the flag to see if it fit... but I actually love the one you put up here!! What program do you use to design your flags? I designed a couple myself that wouldn't upload... so thats when I decided on the EIC flag. Anyway... thanks so much for your help!! I really appreciate it!! --Ac1914 02:25, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh my, I have misplaced the orange and skyblue bands — the Dutch portion of the flag is upside-down. I hope it's no problem for you to fix it.
Every vexillogist would tell you that the flag is bad because it uses too many colors. We could reduce it to something like this:
But now it looks like flag of a US state to me. (A mixture of the flags of Hawaii, Texas, Mississippi, and North Carolina.)
Louisiana has 64 parishes. An average Louisiana parish has population 5 times, and area 10 times smaller than yours. And Louisiana parishes are large ones!
The South African flag is rather an anti-example. Yeah, it kept the Union Jack after 1960, but even before independence it was just one of the three tiny flaglets. Their problem was the strong community of Dutch (Boer) fundamentalists who didn't like the UJ. But I guess you have them too: the original Dutch settlers most likely were Calvinist sectarians, and I think their successors are as nationalistic as their Afrikaner kinsmen.
The program I use is Kompas 3D — but it's no use for you. This program is designed for technical drawing (we are developing some electric equipment), but it's also incredibly good for drawing things like flags, logos, city maps etc. The trouble is this program's authors seem to be paranoiacs: they don't sell it anywhere, and to have it you have to contact them and sign a contract; the program does not work without special USB key, not to mention that its only language is Russian. I think programs like AutoCAD would be okay, but I guess they are too expensive. — Hellerick 15:12, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Well... the truth is I like the second one more... the first lacked the UJ and I agree that third is a nasty little orphan child of a few US State flags (which is bad cuz most States have TERRIBLE flags, it makes me ashamed really). If its ok I think I'll kife the middle one. My problem is that I'm a history buff that knows very little about computers! But when I stumbled onto this site I had to give it a try... and Natal has been in my mind for a year!! haha anyway... my goal is to elaborate more on the history. I plan on adding subpages on the Burghers their history, culture, ect (and actually the Burghers of Natal are inspired equally by the Cajuns of the US) The Uprising of 1830, the Manumission Act (ending slavery) Natal's fascination with Rugby, and bios on key figures (like the PM and the Civil rights leaders)... things like that... computer designing things just isn't my best talent :) Thanks so much for your input!!! you're a smart guy... or girl...? haha --Ac1914 04:31, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

The stem "-rick" in my screen name is supposed to make it sound masculine. It does not? The first half is tribute to Helga Pataki, my favorite cartoon character. In fact San Lorenzo is a "fanwork" too, it is the country where the parents of the boy Helga has crush on were lost. (It's described in many fanfics, and I thought it would be cool to have a special article about it.) Plus I wanted something to try out my concept of "Three Seal Republic" on.
I have switched the colors on the "Second Flag", it's okay? In fact it is not exactly required to have the order of colors the same as on the Dutch flag, you may undo the change if you like. Now it looks a bit like the old flags of South Africa and Transvaal, but I guess this anology is appropriate. I like the second flag better too, even though from formal point of view it's very-very wrong (too many elements, too many colors, it has both blue and skyblue, both orange and red).
Russian regional flags are not much better. Ours is especially bad — I mean the flag of Krasnoyarsk Krai. Councilmen who adopt flags have no taste in them and don't care how they look like, except communists who want everything to be red. BTW Krasnoyarsk Krai flag and coats you can see in Wikipedia were drawn by me. It took three days!
I'm interested in history, heraldry/vexillogy, "applied politics" (I'm the author of the Constitution of New Cambria), linguistics (Keva-English dictionary is mine), writing systems (e.g. Holiland alphabet), calendars (you can look at New Roman Lunisolar Calendar and Denary system of measurement).
BTW does your country have something like Afrikaans ("Natalaans" maybe), simplified version of Dutch?
And what about this white ensign for Natal:

Wow... that ensign is great... I see... Hey Arnold (I loved that show too!) the truth is San Lorenzo was one of my favorite psuedoNations on this site even before you started giving me pointers. Your three seals gov made me think of Simon Bolivar's tricameralism (vaguely) was that any influence? Natalaans?? hmmm.. not really. unlike South Africa which deemphasized Dutch for its own distinct dialect, in Natal the opposite occurred, proper Dutch got emphasized. But of course there are major differences (still working them up, I have a rough draft language section to add) mostly a lot of borrowed terms from Portuguese. I'm working on a Natal national anthem... any pointers there?? --Ac1914 05:39, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

National anthem? I dunno... No ofense, but I doubt very much that you'll manage to write good lyrics for the anthem — it's very difficult. Everything is pretty obvious about the anthem — they did use God Save the King/Queen, they came up with the O Land of our Birth in the 1950s, but God Save the Queen still is used for some ceremonies blah-blah-blah... The only interesting thing is that you have three official language, and something has to be done with it. E.g. the anthem could exist in four versions Portuguese, Dutch, English, and mixed. It could have three stanzas, and in the mixed version the stanzas would be sung in three languages Portuguese-Dutch-English (in chronological order), with neutral refrain (something like "Natal, O Natal"). But honestly I just don't see how it can be interesting.
I don't like the motto. First, I think it's better to remove the preposition -- it would sound more motto-like (kinda "Dieu et mon droit") Second, "our god" sounds like paganism -- there is our god, your god, their god etc. It should be either "our lord", or just "god".
What I really don't like is that the country is too good. It's unrealistic. Just for fun, make it go broke because of the recent financial crisis.
"Scenic Detour" was fun. I remember a similar movie -- but it was about youngsters going to Brazil.
Map! For goodness sake, you need a map! If you can't use photoshop, then do it with a pencil and post here; I'll think how to make it more presentable. — Hellerick 16:33, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Ha ha cool your jets man. Yes I know how to use photoshop and yes I'm working on a map :) and have you listened to some of the National Anthems out there these days? Like "Irelands Call?" "Yumi, Yumi, Yumi?" or even "the Star Spangled Banner?" a lot of these songs are terrible. I'm positive I could write a better National Anthem for the US and definitely can pull off something for Natal. Haha. Your lack of confidence in me is disconcerting :). But I realize how thats not going to be very interesting for others to read. What was the similar movie? I didn't like the motto either. I was just putting that there while I came up with something better. Tell me what you think of the one I came up with (its actual the motto on my family Coat of Arms haha). --Ac1914 03:07, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Just because most anthems are crap does not mean it's okay to make yet one of the same quality. If I were Sergey Mikhalkov (the author of the current Russian anthem) I would die of shame.
If you'd ask me to translate "Let God Reign" into Latin and Dutch I would propose "Regito Deus" and "Laat God regeren". Actually I'm not sure if I understand what you were trying to say with your "Tribuo ut Deus Sceptrum". Do I like this motto? Nope.
I have found Venezuelan constitution of 1811, and according to it the executive power is vested in "three individuals". Cool, my triumvirate republic has precedents in America. BTW it's interesting that the document refers to America as el continente Colombiano. — Hellerick 18:14, 24 October 2008 (UTC)


hey Hellerick... I'm just not satisfied with any of my map designs. Could I persuade you to collaborate with me to produce a quality one?

De acuerdo que sí, I already told you I would. Either publish your drafts here or email them to me (but make sure that your e-letter is not larger than 1 MB) and I'll think what can be done. And give me your email address, maybe I'll send you rough Photoshop files, so you could look at a map "from within".
Besides Photoshop, other very good (but a bit weird) program for map drawing is Inkscape (free vector graphics editor). I once have made a map of Kievan Rus for Spanish Wikipedia in it. After practising in it for a week or two you'll learn how to make marvellous maps. — Hellerick 15:27, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
hey its been awhile but heres my idea for a map, the dark green indicates the highlands, the lime green the tropical wet zones, the brown cultivated temperate zones, the major cities are there marked by blue dots. The island would lie just off the coast of Brazil southeast of Joao Pessoa. Think you could use my descriptions in the article to pull the rest together? My email is :D hope you're still interested in helping me out.
Map of natal

rough draft map of Natal

--Ac1914 07:37, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Oh, you're here, finally. Actually I meant to make a CIA World Factbook-style map, so, no "cultivated temperate zones" (to tell the truth I don't understand how they are supposed to look on a "serious" map); on the other hand it would be cool to know about where the highest mountain is located, how the mountain ranges are called, main rivers, and parish boundaries. Also, I'm not sure where the country is located, so it would be useful to have a map with Natal and Brazil shown together. Well, I'll do what I can. — Hellerick Flag of Divnogorsk 08:41, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Natal CWF
Here it is how I see the map of Natal from CIA World Factbook. — Hellerick Flag of Divnogorsk 09:52, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
Natal location
Here is the location map for the infobox. — Hellerick Flag of Divnogorsk 11:18, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Hello! I am just wondering if there are any nations still currently active in the Nearly Real World. Could you please let me know in the talk page of the Kingdom of Helvore? It would be greatly appreciated! Javants (talk) 10:17, January 19, 2016 (UTC)

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